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“The size of U.S. Units varied at different times during the period of the Vietnam War This is what I found on line:
Squad: 10-12 men
Platoon (3 x squads): 30-40 men
Company (3 x platoons): 100-120 men
Battalion: 3-4 rifle companies, an headquarters company and a combat support company, 800-900 men for US Army battalions, USMC were larger, around 1000-1100 men.
Brigade (3 x battalions): 2500-3000 men
Division: US Divisions in Vietnam were larger than in WW2 and had between 15,000 and 20,000 men.
Units in Vietnam generally operated at 20% below official strength, often at 30%, or on occasion more, so essentially an average of 2 or 3 figures would be absent from any individual squad. Obviously it wasn’t spread out so evenly though, but effectively each platoon was essentially short of between 9 and 12 men at any one time – effectively one of its four squads.
The ‘weapons squad’ was often used as a pool to replace ‘missing men’ (sickness, leave, casualties) and to provide each of the three rifle squads with an M60 (with one added from the battalion MG platoon). The recoilless rifles were rarely carried, so this also provided spare riflemen too.
Squads of 5 men or less were considered ‘combat ineffective’ and 11 (including the Staff Sergeant leading the squad) was the maximum number of men it was felt could be led with any efficiency (the Marines obviously felt differently) by a single squad leader and even then, needed to be broken down into two ‘fire teams’ (ideally evenly), each led by a sergeant.
Your Army squad would have a ‘Staff Sergeant’ leading it and up to two Sergeants (or men acting as such) as fire-team leaders. Two men will have an M79 each and one will almost certainly have an M60. The rest of the men have M16 rifles.”
The above seems to fit my memory from 11/68-11/69. I remember our squad only had one M-79 and that was me & one M-60. Do not remember any LT as Platoon Leader, only Sergeants who where usually Staff Sergeants.
Bill
Early on (’66-’67) it was rare not to have a 1LT for every platoon.
There were occasions when an E7 would fill in upon the loss of an officer.
Your observation is even harder to understand when the output of Infantry officers nearly quadrupled in 1966, with more companies and a shorter cycle.
I wonder what happened.
I seem to remember , i think it was around Nov. of 69 that we went to the field wit about 140 and two-three weeks later were down to about 75. Something like 30 wounded and several killed (i’m thinking it included Lt. Smith killed, Marty wounded badly, etc.) Lots of booby trap casualties as I recall and a bunch of sickness, probably dissentery. We got brought in about a week or two early because of it. All 48 years ago butI’m pretty certain of it.
I think on paper an infantry company was supposed to be about 200, including hq platoon.
Clay, I know my husband Hoot was there at that time and always said not enough man power…
Guys, if I remember correctly, we were always less than 100 .At one point during the monsoons, my squad had 6 guys in it .Tooch
I seem to recall the company having about 90 to 100 men. Three platoons of around 30 men and three squads in each platoon.
Bill,
September, 1970 until October, 1971.
How about you?
Clay,
Nov, 68-Nov,69. Maybe some of the other guys may have an answer. It seem like we were always under strength.
Clay, when where you there? I know we some guys who supposedly made someone mad in the rear.
On the topic of the company roster, i remember seeing some which showed many more people than were around for operations. I also remember a time or two when out of the blue our platoon (3rd) would have a number of new guys show up at reveille. I can’t remember if these were before operations that were supposed to be in bad places or when our numbers were getting low. I do remember they didn’t look like they were new in country and they did look like problem children. I wondered if they were C Co guys who had been put on permanent shit-burning detail in Chu Lai because they were more trouble in the field than they were worth. Seldom saw them again after that initial reveille.
RE: Weapons Co. In WWII, Korea and early VN D Co. was weapons co. They had machine guns and heavy mortars and attached them to line companies or maintained control of them depending on circumstances. In VN the line companies obviously needed their own MG’s and the Army had done away with 60mm mortars for 81’s which they intended to move by vehicles. So they did away with weapons co., made D Co a line co. and created E Co. to give battalion control of all mortars and make a home for the recon platoon. I’m told the 81mm mortars were attached to the line companies part of the time on the DMZ in early 1971. Some of those hills and ridges were near heart attacks for the base plate and tube humpers.
Thank you for the birthday wish Larry! 72 years young today!
Happy birthday LT Ruesch!
Short Round: That 188 count came about by the roster having 141 guys on the roster which included 2 arty guys, 5 medics and 2 Kit Carson scouts. Then there were two rosters that had additions to the company after November 1. There were several November 1970 and several early December 1970 DEROS dates on the roster.
What was strange was that there was 2 E-2’s that had a DEROS date of November, 1970. These two guys must have been in trouble or something.
LARRY—CHECK AGAIN–I THINK LOCO GOT TO US AROUND APRIL OF 70. I WAS GONE BY OCT. OF 70
YAHOO WANTS ME TO ANSWER TOO MANY QUESTIONS.
WE HAD 188 GRUNTS IN C. COMPANY–WOW AND WOW–SOME 1 HAD TO PAD THAT COUNT. FOR SURE NEVER 188 OUT IN THE BUSH WHEN WE WERE THERE.
Jeez. I remember Warlock more than I remember people.He was great and I feel like crap about what happened to him..
Look forward to it. Remember him well. Never walked directly behind you but remember being three or four back. Remember keeping my eyes on Warlock & not you. Knew he would be the first to be alerted. Beautiful animal. I can’t believe a handler would be that stupid. What a shame for Warlock to go out that way. Lord willing, see you in Cleveland.
Then I believe it was you. It is indeed a small world. Are you coming to Cleveland? Was Warlock grey & black German Shepherd?
Bill:
Warlock was Black & Grey/White. I was pull out of the field Feb 1970 & went home in March. Yes I am going to Cleveland.
Another handler name Tommy got Warlock after I went home managed to kill him (had to be put down) because he didn’t have enough water. He was a dope smoking, drug user idiot from Pittsburg PA. I ran into him at the “Wall”on Veterans Day and my wife had to cool me off because I was going rip his head-off.
See you in Cleveland!
Larry, I think it was March of 70……….we (1st Plt) hit some bad stuff; got 3 replacements…….. our Latin Connection, Loco, Chuy and Stache…….. and we became invincible.
You are correct Russ. I had a date wrong on Loco’s stuff.
LARRY–I REMEMBER LOCO FROM 1ST PLATOON. I TRIED TO EMAIL HIM AT YAHOO–BUT TOO MUCH SIGN UP NONSENSE.
REMEMBER LT DORMAN ALSO–HE WAS TO GET C. COMPANY WHEN LT TY LEFT IN AUGUST OR SEPT. 70
SR: I do not know what you are talking about when you say too much signup nonsense to send Loco an email. He and I email each other and I have never have had a problem and have no Yahoo deals that I signed up for.
Loco has seven children and a year ago he had 15 Grandchildren and 1 Great grandchild. He put in over 24 years active and reserve time. He got to Nam in October 1970.
I am not sure when John Dorman took over as the company commander. I have a field roster dated November 1, 1970 and it shows John as a first LT. Looking at that roster was something. They had a lot of non-commissioned officers and a lot of older guys on the list. The company at the first of November had 3 E-7’s, 11 E-6’s and 22 E-5’s. There were 188 guys on this list which included all the medics and other support guys.
Who is “Loco?” Since he got there the month before I did, I should know him.
Cap:
Loco is Jimmy Morin.
That’s how I remember mission to Kham Duc.
I don’t believe anyone from C Co was assigned to help with security and/or clean up.
Doc,
If you are referring to the cleanup/security on LZ Judy after the Chinook was shot down then I would tell you that C Company lost Dwight “Obie” O’Brian from the blades and that C Company was assigned the unenviable task of staying by the wreckage while graves registration did their work. I was with B/2/1 at the time and my platoon was sent out to look for the VC who shot the bird down but we found nothing as I suspected and I lost two of my soldiers to punji stakes left by the trail we followed by the indigenous folks of the area to keep pigs and tigers off them as they walked the trail. One guy sat on one as we stopped at one point. Medevaced out but OK!
Just to confirm Lt. Comment,we were sent down right after the chopper went down and stayed on site until all remains were recovered.Very grim experience for all who were there.We also went on patrols trying to find anyone near the crash site and I will say this ,We did find two gooks in a stream cleaning up but I need to confirm this before I say anymore.
Echo Co. did have 4.2 mm mortors and 81mm. We were on the Firebases with Arty and HHC Co for security ,illumination at night and perimeter guard duty. I was at Kham Duc in August 70 and we lost a 4.2 mm squad leaving there for LZ Judy when A chinook was shot down with 28 aboard. At least 1 on the LZ was from C co and was killed by a piece of the rotor. Did not hump the 81 mm in the bush when I was transferred to C Co after 4 months on the Firebases.
I am not sure how this figures into your discussion but on one mission we had a dog with us (I think it was tracker dog) and we were cutting trees down with C4 and det cord and tree hit handler in the head. I dusted him off but the dog stayed. Smokey tried to feed the dog and when he turned around dog bit him in the ass. Than the dogarage disappeared. I got hurt and was dusted off as well. When chopper come in for dust off the dog showed up from the bush.
You both have my gratitude and respect for ever!
Hey Bill…..I seem to remember a Scout dog and handler coming out to the field to track a wounded VC. The enemy escaped but the dog found a bloody bandage.
I always liked them because they had better sight and smell! Would not want the handler’s job.
Bill:
When you have a dog like Warlock the odds are in your favor. He never missed anything. Problem was some of the officers in other units didn’t want to believe what I was telling them. You have to trust his & your instincts and kill first and ask questions later. I stayed focus on Warlock behavior and try not to think about what could happen. Silva, Allen, Harper, Missar & others always had my back when I was with C 2/1. Once when with 3/21 we got ambushed when some West Pointer wouldn’t listen to Warlock and they left us with a KIA. They stated they though we were KIA also. You guys were the best!
Many years ago I went to a 196th reunion I believe in the 80’s in Hampton Beach. A handler walked up to me & said he remember me. Unfortunately I did not remember him. Could that have been you?
Bill:
I think so because I was there with my son who was station at Norfolk in the Navy.
It was poetry watching the two of you work…..
Best I remember never saw mortars in my tour. You got me thinking which hurts my head. I believe they had three man mortar teams in WWII. Maybe the M-79 took there place. Always loved to see the recoilless rifle or scout dogs. Where they assigned because of the mission?
I thought E platoon was a weapons platoon which included mortars. I have not seen them in the bush either during my time with Charlie Co.
E Co. had the 4.2 inch mortars, but the other companies all had their own 82mm.
gARY,
I think during our time they were attached to maybe E Company and only brought out if we stayed somewhere a long time. I do not remember anyone humping the 81s.
When we went up north in April of 68, they sent a team of 3 guys carrying an 81mm mortar. One guy carried the base plate that I think weighed about 90 pounds. The guy carrying it weighed about 130 pounds. It was kicking him. One other guy carried the tube and another guy carried all other pieces. The rounds were split up among the rest of the company except for guys like me that carried the radio. Ron Causey started out in the mortar platoon that was disbanded around September of 67. So in the early days there was a mortar platoon.
I updated the contact information on Doc Aleks Wolf and Jimmie Morin aka “Loco”. If your contact information is not up to date let me know and I will get it corrected.
Same here. It will be kinds weird since I have not seen you or for that matter any grunts for over 40 years. You guys have an advantage in that a lot of you have kept in touch through the years. Is LT John Doreman any part of this discussion? He was my platoon leader and we shared shelter halves when in the field.
I do not think I have ever seen a post from John Dorman. He has attended reunions. His contact information is on the roster section.
That was first trip to the field. I was a medical liaison on LZ West and was told by my med platoon leader that I would go to the field if needed. My partner Doc Blair was not fit to be in the field. That is also how I met Doc Szydlo, and Sammy Haus, Plowboy Jr and senior and many other fine brothers. I have not been at the reunion ever I am planning to attend this year in Ohio. Looking forward to it.
It’s great to hear that you will be attending. I am looking forward to finally meet you after all our email exchanges.
Was with e2/1 mortors July 70 and with C 2/1 for 7 months and ets July 71. Don’t remember all that happened. Blocked memory and drugs during tour. Glad to be alive. Just got PTSD rating and diabetes disability ratings.
While with C Company, were you with the mortars on Hill 151? I got sent up there to work a mortar not long before I came home in August of 71, even though I was not an 11C. The only names I can remember are a guy named Downey and Rhett something or other.
Was the mortars a HHQ thing, or did each company have their own mortars? I thought Company C was a line company with their own supply and headquarter people, but I do not remember mortars.
Each company had their own weapons platoon, but they were usually OPCON’d to battalion and stayed on whatever firebase HQ was on. I don’t remember ever seeing the mortars in the bush, but they could have been.
I was just looking at the TAPS roster & we have 80 names & I am sure we are not aware of them all. During my tour if we had 100 to 120 we were doing good. 80 is almost a Company. I hope they are enjoying heaven as they served their time in hell.
LT–that day never goes well—just seemed strange V.A. would set an appointment for that day. It was a on a TV type interview with a gal I never saw before–new to V.A. I think–and no past knowledge of me.
SR
I sincerely believe that everyone who was on that hill in the late afternoon/night of March 16, 1970 has some degree of PTSD. Thank God for flare ships or I don’t if we all might have died. Thank God Charlie missed a great opportunity to kick our butts as we were so scared and disorganized. Worst night of my life in my tour!
I came across an article today in the local newspaper concerning a Navy Vet with ischemic heart disease who is trying to receive VA compensation for exposure to Agent Orange. I spoke with Sam Genco, the Vet, his claim and possibly thousands of other sailors is that they were exposed to Agent Orange through drinking water on the ships. The process used to remove the salt actually concentrated the dioxin in the drinking water. On April 5 House Resolution HR-299 will have a hearing by the House Veterans Committee. Call your congressman and ask him to vote to move this forward to the Legislative Process. The Australian Navy pays it ‘s Vets compensation the US does not. Tim Hill