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Hey, Guys;
I hope that you all have a great Fathers Day. I’m going to be grillin’ steaks and you are all welcome!! All you have to do is find your way to Roveredo, Italy and follow the aroma.
I was going to make some remark about certain creatures whose hair is used to make winter clothing but I decided I wouldn’t after the comment about critters in SE Colorado being warned to take cover.
Larry
Maybe it was the Coors that made you forget the sixth guy. You and Eddy try not to wip out everything.
Old timers is heck at times, I just remembered who makes up the sixth guy in our crew as I just saw him in the mirror.
Anything that flies, crawls, hops, digs holes in the ground, runs or swims will be in trouble here in Colorado for the next couple of weeks. Fast Eddie Davis and his wife Marie are coming to spend some time here in Colorado with me and Judy. All the land critters in the southeast corner of Colorado will be in danger for the next couple or so days as we will have the long rifles out. Next week we will go up near the continental divide near Creede, Colorado to catch most of the fish up that way.
Coors better put on another shift as Fast Eddie likes his Coors and it is my favorite also.
I am also planning on being a week early for the reunion. The last count I had is there is going to be about six of us showing up a week early. Fred Passe will be there as well as Ed Davis, Rex Allen, Wally Searight, Ben Buehler, and oh crap I can’t remember the other one right now.
just a note-after being stented by heart doc–surgery has been rescheduled for this fri. at 7:45. there will be a post here and on caringbridge.org/visit/lawrence
I am going to be there for week, the way time flies it will be here soon. Can’t wait to see everyone.
I am getting very excited about the upcoming reunion in Wabasha MN! It is just around the corner. I wish it was tomorrow. I miss being with my brothers and regret when it comes it is only for a few days! How many of you good folks out there are planning on attending?
There is an old saying that “War is too important to leave to the generals.” It’s true but leaving the overall direction,or in the case of LBJ types the day to day operations, to the politicians has it’s downside also. Its always the front-line guys who pick up the tab for bad or unlucky decisions. Our nature and brainpower, as human beings, makes for some incredibly beautiful and wondrous actions and philosophies. And, unfortunately, the exact opposite. We’ve always got hope and potential. We need it. Humans are a funny bunch.
I had occasion in 1966 and 1967 to have to salute, shake hands with and listen to William Westmoreland in person. .
If there was ever an argument against “leaving war to the generals,” this man was it.
Gary;
AMEN!! I have known Wesley Clark when he was a Major, in 3-35 Armor, In Bamberg, Germany. He wasn’t much of a Major, either.
Yes, we should always support the troops.
But, God help us if we ever leave war-making to the General’s! For every Pershing or Bradley or Walton Walker, we have a thousand Westmoreland’s, Wesley Clark’s and Ned Almond’s. Military ability is rarely what propels officers to the of the teepee. More commonly, it’s butt-kissing sycophants who know how to “play the game,” who land in positions of influence and command.
Not only do the troops suffer for lack of good leadership, so do our wars.
Politics is never a good mixture when troops are involved in combat.
We should to let the Military leaders fight the fight that they need to, in order to achieve success.
I know personally, many of the 173rd heroes that are doing it right now. They have left family members here, while they are gone. I’ve come to know many of these family members, as well. They are brave, dedicated, tough as are their spouses.
I can’t help but think what it would be like if General Parshing were around for this.
I’m sure that I speak for all of us when I say, no matter what our military is asked to do, we should always support them, bacause they are us.
Gary and Russ,
Ain’t it so!
Russ:
Carl von Clausewitz (1780-1831)—“War is not merely a political act, but also a political instrument, a continuation of political relations, a carrying out of the same by other means,”
sorry I meant Iraq and not Iran…….for now.
For what it’s worth 40 years later, isn’t there a pretty simply equation that explains the situation and the legacy we have outside our brotherhood.. There are (4) main factors in the equation: 1. Politics, 2) Threats at home, 3) Victories, and then 4) Respect and Support for the military. It’s a cause and effect issue, where 1 & 2 are high impact proactive events that carry much of the weight, and 3 & 4 are the results.
Start with VietNam…..bad politics (-), no homeland threat (except the draft)(-), no victories (-), and thus no respect (-). Iran started with a threat (+), the politics might have been questionable, but some victories (+) pulled it out which equals support and respect (+). There’s no doubt that the Class of 45 also fits the equation. And looking ahead, Afghanistan will be a bigger problem soon unless there’s a new threat or new victories. Obviously I’m not saying a threat is a positive thing, but I don’t think anybody can argue the impact it has on our society’s view of the military.
There’s nothing new under the sun. Politics is always the real wild card in histroy and we were just too late for the first GW, Abe, Harry or Ike. We got stuck with LBJ and Tricky Dick… and yes I believe the guys today are stuck with another big down tick in Politics. And it’s pretty unsettling to know what would give him an up tick. But we’ll hope for new contestants in the next beauty contest and the pendulum will swing again..
Ty:
Yeah, but some of us wore both hats….soldier and protestor! Or, in reverse order, protestor first and then soldier. I fell into the first type as I came home from the war convinced it ought to either be won outright or ended. Fortunately, it didn’t go on too much longer after I left.
But, yes, that still continues to “flavor” me. Several years ago, I went down to an anti-war protest in Crawford, TX, the home of G. W. Bush. I was opposed to the Iraq war, not because I thought it totally un-necessary, but because I was angry at how it was being conducted. However, I didn’t join the protest march; I protested the protestors and reminded them that the troops still need our support, no matter what we thought about the war. I was, and still am, of the opinon that you don’t have to support the cause to support the troops themselves.
Interestingly, several of them stopped by to visit and debate, both before and after the march, and later on, I spent several hours at their encampment (even got to hear Ralph Nader somnambulate through a speech) and surprisingly, I didn’t find one, single anti-war protestor who couldn’t agree with my position. All of them were willing and able to separate the soldiers from the war, not like back in our day. I was really quite pleased to find that out. Even Code Pink was able to express support for the troops while opposing the war!
Sadly, that was not the case among the pro-war counter protestors. They invaribly insisted that one could not support the troops without supporting the cause.
Gary,
We each express our stance on an issue in our own way. I too was and am unsettled by how warfare is enacted these days. I personally see no use in attending protest demonstrations because, in my opinion, our society is numb about them due to the over abundance of “causes” demonstrated constantly in our streets. Only through concentrated efforts of direct communication between people can we rid ourselves of the short-sighted, self-serving leadership that continues to eradicate American values and offer up our valiant military for the “cause of the day” in a manner not shared fairly through all levels of society (i.e., draft). Voting still holds the key. Use of emails and snail-mail along with telecommunications will be the ultimate means to the end.
There is no doubt our experiences in Vietnam flavored our perceptions of the war and American Society in general. There is, however, one indesputable fact … not everyone could be a protester on the sidelines… someone had to saddle up and hump the boonies. THIS is what makes America… America.
Check out this 5 part series by Michael Fay in the New York Times about Marines in Iraq.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/drawing-fire/
Would you believe I actually heard another Vietnam Veteran tell an Iraq Vet at the VFW that his wasn’t a “real” war like ours? Man, did I get pissed! At the time, I was the post Commander and told him if I ever heard that come out of his mouth again, I’d bar him from the post for life.
Rick:
Sounds like a pretty good job…if you still work. LOL
Are those computer battle simulations worth the time and money to the troops? Do they really learn anything? They seem to be far better prepared tactically than we were, but I don’t think they’re psychologically any better off than us. Then again, how could you really prepare someone for combat? I’m sure the battle simulations are valuable to tankers and flight crews, but I wonder how effective they are for grunts.
Yes, their job today is much tougher than our was for a variety of reasons. They carry more gear (who would have thought that possible!), fight in a worse environment and Article 15’s fly like snowflakes in Buffalo for thousands of reasons. I have a friend who got one on a FOB in Iraq for walking beside someone with a different uniform on. It seems that not only has war gotten more difficult and complicated, but that the level of Army chickenshit has risen to historic levels.
I don’t know how they take it. If it were me, I’d end up in the can.
Gary;
Yeah I do still work, but I am so fortunate that since my retirement from the Army in 1992, I have been teaching Computer Battle Simulations to our great soldiers.
I work with the 173rd Infantry now, and some of those are on their 4th and 5th deployment. When they go it is for 15 months at a time. I have so much respect for them. I see the strong families here every day.
The grunts of today have it pretty rough. Then they have to worry about being Court Martialed for slapping some Insurgent POS in the face!
I, for one, am very glad that I don’t have to be faced with that kind of crap.
Ben Buehler had parathyroid surgery today. He says he is doing great. Hope he has a full and speedy recovery.
Short round and Bill:
Sadly, it’s far too late for a draft now. The People won’t support it like they would have just after 9/11. These wars have been going on too long and most people have forgotten them and few even support their continuing. In the end, just like in Vietnam, we’ll find some excuse to claim victory and pull out, leaving everything unchanged at the cost of thousands of young lives and billions of dollars. It’s a tragedy of the first magnitude, but the die was cast at the very beginning when Rumsfeld first told Gen. Franks that he couldn’t have the 6 divisions he wanted to invade Iraq and when Gen. Shenseki was fired for daring to tell the truth.
The only thing we’ve accomplished for all that blood and treasure is to strengthen and empower our enemies while weakening ourselves and our allies. Mark my words….ultimately, it’ll lead to WWIII in which billions will die.
As for that word? So far as I’m concerned, it’s another 4 letter word. 🙂
gary-strongly agree with you about the multiple tours of some of todays grunts, it just ain`t “right”. the shared sacrifice of the draft makes more sense in a lot of ways. yes, always good to have old-timers around, but after a 2nd tour, let another old timer show the ropes, not have grunts facing booby traps tour after tour. to me its near criminal, like when mc namara had the project 100,000 idea–some people just don`t belong in the bush, nor belong being sent back multiple times.
gary–that W word that doc Z used–it ain`t christian, i don`t use it
Gary,
Don’t know the tour lengthens but know four is two long. I agree with the draft notion as this war has become back page news and we have men and women dying daily.
Bill:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t 4 Marine tours add up to about 40 months? As I understand it, Marine tours are 10 months, the Army is 12-15 and the Air Force is usually about 3 months. I don’t know about the Navy and Coast Guard.
In any case, that’s a long time to be under the gun. You can only go back to the well so many times before it comes up dry and that’s what worries me about how this current war is being conducted so much. How many times CAN we ask those men and women to into the abyss while allowing the majority of their peers to escape service altogether?
I will forever fault George Bush for not asking for a draft to spread the risk around on Sept. 12, 2001. The opportunity was there, our people were ready for it, and he didn’t do it. He told us to go to the mall, so that’s just what we did. The result is that the basically the same men and women have been fighting this war since the beginning and will fight it to it’s end while everyone else but their families are allowed to ignore it. I can’t tell you how angry that makes me.
Rick:
Sounds like the trip of a lifetime and far better than the trip we all made to Southeast Asia. LOL
But, what was that you said at the end? Back to what? I’m afraid I’m unfamiliar with that word. 🙂
Am I hearing that we may not have been given nothing but the truth and whole truth by the Army. Must have been the NCO’s as an officer and a gentlement would not let false words come out of their mouth. Only kidding guys. I am proud of everyone of you and my own service. Saw a Marine last night on the news doing his 4th tour.
Hi, Gary;
Yeah, that would have been nice. I know that 2 months isn’t much, but it would have been 2 more months that I would have had with my family. After my time was done with Charlie Company, for me, it was over. I know tht it sounds crazy, but I treasure the time that I spent with the you grunts. To this day, I tell people that of all of my assignments, I wouldn’t trade my C Company experience for anything. I realized what I was capable of doing.
Barbara and I had a great time on the cruise. We stopped in Dubrovnik, Croatia, Izmir, Turkey, Pireaus, Greece and Napflion, Greece. Back to work tomorrow.