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We spent 5 or 6 weeks in Thien Phouc in early 1971. Found some bunker complex’s and took 5 POW’s on the way out, but made very, very little contact the whole time. There were a lot of dinks around, though. Given that LZ Mary Ann was over-run shortly after we left, I suspect they didn’t want to fight to preserve their strength for that.
Carl: Incompetent leadership? How’s this for incompetent: We were alerted that a main force VC battalion has been spotted heading right up a trail 2nd platoon was set up on and we were ordered to ambush them. At the time, 2nd platoon amounted to 10 or 12 guys. That’s right…10 or 12 guys to take on a whole battalion. I’ve always wondered why nobody bombed the shit out of them or called in arty. I mean, after all, they KNEW WHERE THEY WERE!
Fortunately for us, the VC bypassed us, leaving Chieu Hoi leaflets urging us to join the anti-war movement when we got home.
Bill, We were in Hiep Duc. I’m not familiar with the one in Tien Phuoc. When did that occur? Was C2/1 in this one? We were in one south of Ross in March with Bravo but I can’t think of another one in that area.
Carl,
Was your battle in Tien Phuc sometime in 1968 since you left in 11/68?
Clay, I don’t mind talking about it at all. Every time we got hammered it seemed someone higher up, messed up or were bucking for a promotion. I believe Col. Cully blew us off. I think he was protecting his own companies. When Col Humphries was writing the book, he called Col. Cully to get his perspective about that night. Col Cully told him that he couldn’t remember and didn’t want to talk about it and hung up. It frustrates me to remember all those guys lost because someone in command screwed up. He wouldn’t allow A 4/31 come to our aid for several hours. They watched the firefight and monitored the radio and knew what was happening. Capt. Byers kept calling Cully to beg him to let them come to help. Permission was denied until about 4 hours into the firefight. They fought their way to us. The firefight lasted 5 to 6 hours before they got there. We had a very strong and veteran company. At least half of the company had come up from Tay Ninh. I had only been with Charlie for about 7 weeks. Those guys never seemed to panic regardless of the situation. They just reacted. We lost the CO and 1st plt leader before the fight started. They were being treated by the time it got started. Don’t know when 2nd plt leader, Lt Norton, got killed but Lt Drake, who was the acting CO, got killed early on. That left Lt German the Artillery FO as the CO. He also got killed. The company got split into 2 groups but we were able to form 2 tight defensive perimeters and kept them from overrunning us. I had less than a magazine left when Alpha got there. After A 4/31 got there, the VC broke contact for the most part. Some fighting continued until early morning after daylight. The VC chose the wrong company that night because they too suffered tremendous losses. Our biggest problem was that we had no one to adjust the artillery fire. We only had one plt sgt left. Up where we were, our highest ranking guy was an E4. It took 2 to 3 weeks to get the company back together. Some who had been wounded came back, we got new guys, and guys were brought to us from the other companies in the battalion. I was the only one from 1st plt to come back to the field. Peterson and Sullivan, who had been wounded, came back but only stayed a short time. Lt. Drake, Lt German and Sgt Ron Malachi were awarded DSM’s from that firefight. Drake and Malachi should have gotten the MOH. There was a move on about 2 or 3 years ago to get them the MOH, but it failed Also Maj. Patrick Brady was awarded the MOH as a medevac pilot for that action and I believe 2 others he was involved with that day. He retired as a Maj Gen. Clay, if you or anyone else has any questions, just ask. I don’t mind answering any of them. I read this website every day! I love reading about what we did as young men. I only know a few of you guys from some of the 196 reunions but your names are familiar to me enough that I feel like I know you.
Bill, I spent time on Ryder a couple of times. Once spent almost 3 weeks up there. 1st plt was sent up there in the middle of June of 68 and we never left there until the 5th of July. Great view from up there. With binoculars, we could see the ships in the harbor in DaNang about 40 to 50 miles away. I was an RTO and a Marine outpost was about to be overrun at the end of the An Hoa valley. They were out of range of there own arty and called me to try to get them some. Ross started firing their 8″ and 175’s and were going directly over our heads. They were so close we thought we may get hit with one. We were on the far side of the hill, hugging the ground. The Marine officier called me the next day to say thanks. The NVA were coming over the wire when the HE rounds started hitting.
Guys, when I first got to Charlie co. in May of 69, they were all talking about some heavy contact at a place called Tien Phuc. can anyone enlighten me on this op ?
Rick Lowell,
You’re right it was Rocky Bleier. He was a good back and a part of some of those great 1970’s Steelers teams.
From a medic’s perspective, I’m glad I didn’t have to carry him.
Carl, I’ve read Through The Valley by James M. Humphries who mentions you a number of times regarding the night C 2/1 got shot up so badly. I know C 2/1 was op-con to 4/31 that night and I’ve wondered if we got left out in the breeze like a step child that night? It sounds like all the officers got put out of action early in the fight. I presume that made some difference. Did the company fight pretty well after that? I presume it was a pretty good company before hand. How long after the fight did it take to put the company back together? I don’t mean to be over intrusive but as bad as that event was, I was curious about your grunt level view.
Carl,
It must have been LZ Ross and maybe Baldy both because I now remember them being called the triple culverts now that you mentioned it. I never did much in the water when there because I was afraid of getting caught with my “pants down” with no weapon. Our rotation was like yours most of the time of three out and one in. Don’t remember Capt Peters. My first memory of a Capt was Capt Yap. I was so new I did good to know my squad members. Just did what I was told and prayed to survive. Never went into Que Son on medical assistance. Did you ever go up to LZ Ryder for any operations?
Bill, we did 21 days in the field and 7 days on the bunker line at Ross. When we were on Ross, we did security for the engineers on road sweeps from Ross to the triple culverts, or about half way to Baldy. We were on Baldy a short time and did them from Baldy to the triple culverts also. We also provided security for the medics and the Battalion
Surgeon who went into Que Son to give medical assistance to the locals. I once saw a premature baby that had been born seconds before we got there. Bill was Captain Peters the CO when you came? He took over the company just after I left in September 68.
Thanks Carl. I did not know the history of Ross. I did road sweeps but do not remember if off Ross or Baldy. We thought that was good duty because at the end of the sweep was a swimming hole build by the troops and we could buy soda or beer from the locals. Once took three motors, no causalities but that was the only time. Of course, bunker duty on which ever LZ it was on so hot chow, bath, and felt pretty secure. Please post more. Would like to more about the guys before me. You left as I was coming in on 11/68.
Bill, The Marines were the original builders of LZ Ross. The 1st Cav followed them into Ross and 2/1 moved into Ross in February of 68 shortly after it had been overrun or nearly overrun, can’t recall which. Anyone here spend any time on LZ Ryder or do any road sweeps off of Ross with the engineers? BTW, we lost 28 KIA’s during my year Nov 67 – Nov 68 including 20 on the night of Jan 5 and 6 of 68 in Hiep Duc while op con to 4/31st. On Feb 9 we lost 6 more in DaNang working with the Marines.
Tooch, Jim Hansford and I were set up behind a store wall. We both felt safe and secure behind it until an RPG went over our heads and hit the CP wounding several. After that I knew our wall might stop bullets but not an RPG. I believe our squad may have spent a night or two in your trench a couple of nights later. I felt safe in the trench until one morning in the fog an NVA tripped a flare and we all opened up even though we couldn’t see anything beyond a few yards.. We thought a full charge was coming. We got one KIA plus I heard another spot on the perimeter got a KIA. Not sure if they were probing us or just stumbled in on us.
Bill, when we got hit that first night; my squad was in a trench; and when that spooky gunship started to rock and roll, my point man [Hoot Gibson] took 3rounds. fortunately he survived. Spooky also took out my air mattress !
I figured the 196th must have been either good or bad based on the fact we gave LZ Ross to the Marines and built LZ Baldy which we later turned over to the Marines to build LZ Hawk Hill. I was part of all that.
I was on LZ West only once and that was for that operation. Too my knowledge I don’t think I knew the name of it until many years later. By that time it was just another walk in the bush until the action got started. What a welcome for Larry.
Tooch mentions that Nolan only gave us 2 sentences credit in his book Death Valley. I said it was Bill Beckum who said that and in the interest of giving credit where credit is due I retract that statement and give credit to Tooch.
As Bill Beckum notes, Nolan gave us about 2 sentences mention in Death Valley and it sounds like we were there for about 2 days. Larry Harper mentions that was his welcome to C 2/1 and they spent several days around the old French hootch and many more in the general area. A big point of that operation was to have Army troops link up w/ the 7th Marines between Hiep Duc and LZ Ross. The Marines also had a hell of a time maneuvering and advancing but we all finally got it done causing a big element from the 2nd NVA Division to retreat back into the mountains. That was also the operation where an element from 3/21 or 4/31 refused to move for an hour or two and the press made a hell of a big deal out of it. Another cloud over the Americal Division. That was also where a future running back for the Pittsburg Steelers got hit in the foot and was medivaced after much fighting and painful humping. Can’t think of his name.
Clay,
I believe it was Rocky Bleier.
I agree w/ Bill Beckham. I think Nolan was a decent author but he had more sources who kept better journals in other battalions so he based more of his stories on them. It seemed to me that the 196th was the best brigade in the division and we did what we were asked. It also seems that 2/1 was kind of a swing battalion which would go to hot spots as opposed to working the same AO all the time. The bad news was the threat of running into something heavy without really expecting it. The good news was we were out in the boonies so much that the NVA didn’t mess with booby traps as much in areas where they intended to be/stay and the snipers weren’t as active or organized. Also they didn’t have time to get big units organized to take us on with the in-and-out approach we took. Our swing status did get us to the DMZ and that wasn’t so good. Likewise we were 1st into the Marines old AO around An Hoa and the Arizona Territory.
Tooch,
I read it several years ago. May read it again. I have always been amazed at the little mention C 2/1 gets for that engagement and the bad press the 196th gets for being battle ready. I can not speak nor the rest of the the 196th but I always thought Charlie Company performed well.
Thanks Tooch! Your experience with booby traps a lot worse than mine. Remember well sitting on the bunker on LZ West after we left the valley and seeing fire fights after it got dark all up and down the valley. It was frightening because the word was we were going back down which we did not. Never knew until a few years ago the Marines relieved us. Just figured another Army unit.
Bill, there is a book written by Keith William Nolan called Death Valley The summer offensive I Corp, August 1969. It describes in detail what went on ; but our company was only mentioned in two sentences.
Jim and Bill, here’ the story . There was a major offensive by the NVA’s 7th regiment in August of 69. on the night of August 11th, they attacked in 100 places. A and B companies of the 4/31 st. were attacked northwest of Tam Ky. Elements of the 7th marines were fighting north of the Hiep Duc valley , as they moved south. D company 4/31 st, moved down from LZ West into the valley and got their butts kicked. C 2/1 were choppered onto LZ West and moved into the valley to relieve D 4/31. We didn’t fare too much better and were eventually relieve by the 7th marines. Everyone took big hits. Bill as far as booby traps were concerned, we hit 2 in May 69 and two in June . I was wounded and my point man John North was killed. After that it quieted down until after Thanksgiving 69 ,when we hit 2 more . 6 wounded and one Lt. killed. I was in the field from the first week of May 69 until the middle of Feb. 70. Tooch
Jim
Sorry, you are correct on TET. It happened before I got there & it was heavy on my mind in 69.
Bill: I can’t comment on your year in Vietnam, but even though Tet is an annual event, the big NVA/Viet Cong attacks were in 1968, not 1969.
I would like some feed back on my thoughts of my year of 11/68-11/69 and how I may have had it easier than most of you.. Tet happen in 1/69 which was considered the peak of the war. We all had different experiences but your input would be appreciate.
First, most of my time was spent in the mountains and not in the valleys. This meant most of the time we were looking for NVA and not VC. Second, we did not have to worry as much about booby traps as the NVA did not use them as much as the VC. I only remember two incidents of booby traps going off. Also in the mountains we were not bothered by snipers as we were in the valleys. This for me relived some of the stress of combat. The other issue was the number of men lost in my year plus in combat. Iwas in two major campaigns. They were 3/69 and 8/69 but I came out of them both OK. We lost seven men KIA during my time which included these two engagements. I believe that is a smaller number than most guys of you who spent a year there. To those seven it was the ultimate sacrifice.
Feedback please. Am I correct in my assumptions or am I looking through rose colored glasses.
if my memory serves me right i carried the radio-an extra belt of 60 rnds-a 16/then 79/ big JAKE-[I BELIEVE THAT IS WHAT THE 60 WAS NICK-NAMED] went to a 45 on last days on THE HILL…
thanks for the story Gary,i thank the LORD for allowing my return from there but the guys in the unit done thier share of watching each others back and getting those who made it– back /so THANKS to all who were there to teach……
Gary,
That song is more like a nightmare! I couldn’t imagine the world running out of beer.
Like he says, the Lord must like it, because he keeps it here.
Charlie Company reunion theme song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy729W5lWIs&feature=em-share_video_user
Gary,
Thanks for your story. I knew guys who volunteered to come. Not me. I adjusted after getting there and became hard core. Never did anything I was ashamed to tell anyone but would kill with no regrets if called on.
Mark,
I felt the same way when I walked point. I was the “warning” kill for the rest of the guys. My first time on point was with an M-79 loaded with a canister round. I was to dumb to ask for am M-16 and no one offered.
I actually also volunteered to walk point for 1st platoon just to get off the firebase. LOL I was about a month or two short then, but HATED being on the mortar crew. You’ve heard the phrase, “time drags?” Well, on the firebase, that didn’t even begin to describe the boredom.
Anyhow, SSG Corman, the PLSGT, didn’t let me do it very long. I don’t think I was very good at it that close to DEROS. He “temporarily” relieved me of it and never offered to put me back. I didn’t argue. LOL
Gary, my story was a bit different. I got to Nam as a shake and bake buck sergeant. I realized that it was not about me anymore; but I had the responsibility of the guys in my squad. They still gave me a bit of the FNG thing. My first day, we had to run a night patrol. I asked who was the point man; of course, we didn’t have one. I ended up walking point that night. I said to the guys ” you’re taking a big chance, since I don’t know anything”. They told me to consider myself dead already, and if we all get killed, we’re not going to know about it any way. After that night, I guess I got their respect; because they never allowed me to walk point again. Tooch
It was bad enough just being responsible for me and those around me. Later on, during 12 more years in the Army, I moved into command positions but never had to do it in combat, thank goodness.